Nicole Astra:
Welcome to Talking Plant Protein. I'm Nicole Astra. I have an exciting program for you today. Mario Ubiali and Chef Jose Guerrero are joining me today, both representing different companies, but partnering in a unique way. And they would like to bring the food revolution we're in, around the human, again.

Nicole Astra:
Guys, welcome to the show. Mario, let's start with you. Thimus, what is it? What's going on?

Mario Ubiali:
Oh, wow. Well thank you. It's a great pleasure. Exciting to be here. What is Thimus? Thimus is a venture that was born five, almost six years ago, out of Italy, and then branched out in North America, in the United States. What do we do? We attempt, and I would say most of the time succeed, in describing what happens in people's brain as they go about food and beverage experiences. So in a nutshell, that's our job. Our job has been developing, and still developing, technologies, knowledge, and methodology around the question, what's going on with humans and food?

Nicole Astra:
So you're telling me that we are going to be able to quantify my firm belief that eating things I love are actually good for my body, regardless of the nutrition content?

Mario Ubiali:
Absolutely. I'm telling you that this is the first time in human history, and that's what really makes things really exciting, not just for Thimus I guess, for the food community at large. This is the very first time in human history that we do have a combination of scientific and computational abilities that make it possible to tap into the brain of humans having a food experience, digitize the brainwaves, which we naturally of course generate, and decode them so that we can go about and really describe, millisecond by millisecond if we want to, bite by bite to be more practical. What happens in somebody's brain or in a group of people, of course, as they have a food experience. And so yeah, absolutely. We can actually tell about the intensity of emotions. We can tell about the processes and how familiar you feel with the food, whether you're focused on trying to understand what it is, and stuff like that.

Nicole Astra:
And Chef, how about you? Tell me a little bit about the anime ... Anime, anima?

Jose Guerrero:
Anima Project.

Nicole Astra:
Anima project, please.

Jose Guerrero:
So Anima means in Latin soul. And basically Anima, it's our research and development project that have as a main goal to create and share knowledge. Our mission is to support the local development here in Budapest. We are based in Budapest, Hungary. And basically we have three lines of work. The first two lines are co-creation and research, where I just partnered with people that have the same dream of having impact to develop research projects that have impact in gastronomy in Europe and in Hungary directly.

Jose Guerrero:
And then there is a part of experimental where we are finishing up a teaching laboratory here in Budapest, where we are going to have some technology to experiment, and also we're going to have a 12 people dining room where we are going to just get crazy on that place, like cooking for these people, having pop ups. One day, I come fried chicken and put it with Coriander and then the other day I bring a fish from China and I just give to them. It's just about ... This is the part where we have fun.

Jose Guerrero:
I don't want to forget that I am very happy making another people happy. So, in this part of the experimental is where the research become experience. So, basically this is the Anima project and also I am the head of research and development for a restaurant called Arany Kaviár that is part from the MICHELIN guide here in Budapest.

Jose Guerrero:
So this is what it, is Anima project. And it means soul, because I truly believe that the soul of everything is the research and the knowledge. This is like the seed where everything starts to grow.

Nicole Astra:
You know, food in general is such a beautiful marriage between art and science. And I know that you feel that way too, with a master's of science yourself, you see firsthand, that food is community. You're serving people around a table. What does that community priority, I guess, to our food, what does that mean to you as you look forward into this project?

Jose Guerrero:
So it's very important because when I design food, when I design products, I'm designing an experience. And I always think that as an experience, that the food, I always encourage the people at the restaurants when I make coaching, is okay, let's be more than a plate and a table. Let's be a restaurant who have impact, that we bring that impact.

Jose Guerrero:
So connecting to this project that we are doing together with Mario on feelings, this is what we want in order to create impact. Be more than a product, go further than, than the borders of product development. That's why we decided to make this holistic approach. And that's why we decided to work in a mood to visit united context, because we are not just designing approach. We are not just making product development. We are creating an experience and we are creating an experience that's going to have impact on, on, on human and humanity.

Nicole Astra:
Mario, learning about how we experience food. How do you think that can transform the food system?

Mario Ubiali:
Well, I think it's essential. My, current understanding of the food system is that it's, we have been going through such a critical phase of transformation and revolution. The sustainability issue has been pushing the limit on so many notions relating to food. COVID probably has sort of been a catalyst of this different way of looking at the future of food. And there is a little bit of an element without really sounding like a crazy fanatic, but there certainly is an element for, for us as a team of hearing a calling on this. When we started working with large corporations on a global level, when we started collaborating with large academic institutions, we are very prominent in the world of what's going to be the food of the future. There was almost instantly a notion in everybody in the team's team. And then when we joined forces with Anima, that was common to them too.

Mario Ubiali:
You had these conversations, right? And these conversations are a lot about, oh, we possess the technology, so let's do that food because we have a mean to do it. Now. You know, I grew up in old Europe and as a philosophy trained person who is now in corporate life, I never forgot about means to an end. You know, it's the end part of the equation that we, I think we're sort of running the risk of forgetting. And so how I think that neuroscience can actually contribute to that is in a very simple way, we're trying to, people are pointing at the moon and looking at the finger proverbially, we're trying to focus back on the moon. The moon is the essence of humans and we need to make food, whatever it is going to be. And it's, there's no doubt it's going to change. There's no doubt it's going to be transitional. There's no doubt it's going to be plant based for, for, for a lot of applications.

Mario Ubiali:
However, the real question is, okay, how do we make it successful? Do we want to run a revolution? Sure, we do. So how do we make it successful? And, and we believe that neuroscience is going to enable by sharing robust, scientific data and mix it with cultural gastronomic knowledge is going to enable the whole system to look at different ways of actually making new food successful.

Nicole Astra:
Well, and talk about the customer driving the demand. You're going to, you're going to literally be reading their brains and that's, that's pretty fascinating.

Nicole Astra:
Jose, would say food is so much a part of your life. Do you see with the plant-based revolution we're in, do you fear not being able to hold on to our cultural preferences and traditions?

Jose Guerrero:
This is one of the questions that we have been discussing with Mario several times. It is indeed is two questions like how the innovation of today becomes tradition tomorrow. You know, it's very hard to achieve something that becomes tradition in the future.

Jose Guerrero:
And also, I think, I truly believe that creating something without administrating, I think is easy, but creating something that stays on history, this is a real challenge, you know? So I think on plant based, there is a huge opportunity to try to make some impact. To try to improve a little bit, as I always say, a little bit human life. Because I think, as you said, or as we was speaking, I think meat consumption have to be renewed by several, by several topics. And as we say on the, on the documental series that we are making. A lot of people wake up every morning, we decide of changing the world.

Jose Guerrero:
You know, we decide of do the things differently. And we say, okay, how much of these people is taking the first step, on changing the world, do the things different. If you want something different, let's try to do the things different and the world as it is now, I think is not good. So we have to try differently because the things that we have done until today, maybe it's not, it's not the correct way.

Jose Guerrero:
You see global warming, deforestation, a lot of fire on the, on the forest, Amazon and forest, the waste of resources. We have to change this mentality and we have to make impact. And this is our, this is our way across plant based proteins language to make this impact, to make, make things different and to give an impact across the astronomy, across the customer, educating them and creating experiences for them across these, these knowledge that we are creating together.

Nicole Astra:
And we're only going to make an impact if we do it collectively.

Nicole Astra:
Mario, tell me about some of the partnerships that you guys have already experienced, and that might be coming up.

Mario Ubiali:
Well, it's luckily enough as they, as the old proverb goes it's better to be sitting at the table with smarter people than, than you. So we made that choice. We set a table with people who were a lot smarter than we are. And so right now, for example, one, one very fruitful collaboration we have in North America is with the Ultimate Club at UC Berkeley, fantastic collaboration, Professor Ricardo Sal Martinez, really welcomed us with open arms. There's a lot going on and boiling there, we're launching this very extensive study, which is precisely on alternative meats, which will run the course of 2022. Very gladly, I can finally officially announce a partnership we signed just 24 hours ago. So you're the first one to know.

Nicole Astra:
We love breaking story.

Mario Ubiali:
There you go. Yeah, let's breaking news and so we just signed a partnership for, for research and collaboration with KMZero Hub. It's a, it's a non for profit organization based in Valencia, Spain, which has been building a tremendous network internationally about the next wave in food innovation and sustainable one in Spain. And with them, we will look deeper into how regional cultures in Europe are actually going to react to the prospect of new food. Of course, there is this fantastic collaboration with Anima and getting our hands dirty in the kitchen to present something revolutionary in New York City at the Future Food Tech Summit there, and a couple of other things which are really sort of under wraps at the moment, more corporate oriented partnerships, which are extremely exciting. And this is where if you, if I might just a five second bite to this, because it's really close to my heart and to Jose's heart too. When we introduce why we do this and what we do, we sound like two, I don't know, teenagers who are enamored with something, right. Well,

Nicole Astra:
You have said the word crazy so far, just saying.

Mario Ubiali:
So I feel it's also important to say that both of us are extremely practical, extremely operational. We do have solid experience in making things happen. So it's important to emphasize that this project for, New York City, for example, as far as other projects we're working on, they are intending to change things in a very practical science-oriented, solid, skilled kind of way. And we haven't even mentioned that our teams around us are made of very competent young people who come from all over the place. And my own team is made of Cognitive Neuroscientists and Biomedical Engineers, Psychologists, Anthropologists, it's amazing. Right? So I always feel when I'm ending with these conversations, that I only gauge the part about the the soapbox kind of speech and people think you're crazy. I'm going to bring you coffee or 2 cents and say, go home and rest. Right. But we're very serious about this. And I think we're going to make an impact in the real world.

Nicole Astra:
You know, this might be a good time too, Jose. There's a third person in this trifecta of revolutionizing. So tell me a little bit about that third partner who wasn't able to be with us today.

Jose Guerrero:
So Victor, we have a very long story together. He's a Biotechnologist from Cuenca Spain. We did our Master of Science together. This is where we get meet and all of the projects that we was doing at the master, we have a lot of, during the master at the Vasculare center. We faced different challenge during two years and coming companies. And they put a challenge to us of product design or researcher projects and all of them we did together. So I think we have this connection between minds that he don't have to speak to. I understand what he says.

Nicole Astra:
Yeah. Shared history.

Jose Guerrero:
And he's a person who always have been fully, deeply deep working on plant based things. He always have this dream of making impact across this topic. And that's why when we get together with Mario to work with this, my first option to build the team was with him. He is super, super talent person. As super practical as Mario say, the three of us, I want to include Victor. We are super practical, super operational. And when we go hands on is real, okay. I say this, but at the, at the time I finish saying I have the 50% beat already. I know. So Victor have this quality as well. And that's what makes our work easier. And he's putting the part of biotechnology because he have an understand of the ingredients and another approach of ingredients. I have the Adonic part of understanding because I came from fine dining restaurant.

Jose Guerrero:
He understands the parts of the industry, the future of the ingredients. He understands, for example, how a goon works in a, in a, in a system or how to, I don't know how to understand fat, for example, how to understand physical and chemical properties from products, because he have this strong background of industrial product development. So it's a key part on the project because he helped me a lot to understand a lot of ingredients that I can see. For example, let's say the flavors and the aromas. I see an Adonic , but he tell me, no, no, no, it's not only Adonic. Maybe this is creating the fat mouth filler of a few and then I go and I try and I say, oh, yes, it's totally right. So this is why it's a very important key to work with, because the approach of the ingredients that he have and all of the experience and the background that we have. And also, we have been partners a lot of times. Also for party, for research and for, for, for everything, for the dining, for everything.

Nicole Astra:
So all of this takes a lot of money. Who's been funding thus far. And is there a fundraising round coming up?

Mario Ubiali:
Well, that's, that's an excellent, real is real check-in of the rules of the game. So far, we have been self-funding this project, which is a lot of work and a lot of resources. Which, which I think is an expression of our real commitment to this. We are extremely, all of us, everyone involved, Victor included of course, working day and night towards the goal, because we really want to plant the little flag in the whole discourse and conversation worldwide. Yes, Thimus as a company has been growing constantly in the last six years, we certainly are looking for 2022 to put together a seed round. There's a few expressions of interest. I think we are uniquely placed to make a difference, but we are also, I usually say that we are a little bit a different animal than, than a unicorn and we're more like a silkworm.

Mario Ubiali:
If you understand the metaphor, which means we might not look so pretty when you look at us at first, but we actually produce one of the nicest things in the world. And so our output is a precious substance, which is going to be used to make the texture of the future of food. And so I'm a true believer in that. And I just am having conversations with people who can understand that it's going to be the design behind this whole thing is not, we're also very hopeful that in the midterm, the corporations that we with whom we have been speaking so far will probably come forward with, with partial support for this kind of work. Again, being very practical. And I think Jose can definitely add and expand on that. We're not going to just run an exercise on multidisciplinary co-creation of plant-based safe food or bases for fine dining applications.

Mario Ubiali:
We actually trying to signify that there is a different way of doing things. And in the process, I do believe we will dish out a few interesting recipes and products. And so we are very, again, very, very optimistic. It's my friend Jose, the first time we met, he said, "Every revolution needs a good place to start." And the two of us, I come out of Italy, which is very well known, but it's also considered to be an underdog in the startup economy. Jose has his own story and decided to set up in Budapest. I think revolution sometimes comes out of very unpredictable places.

Jose Guerrero:
Yeah. I feel like I always make the metaphor. In my country. In Colombia. There was this revolution 200 years ago with Simon Bolivar when, when he free us from the Spanish Empire. And I feel like Bolivar here. He invested because he have this dream of revolution and he was investing all of his resources, familiar properties, everything just because he was loving Colombia. It was because he was loving South America. And because he have a love for them.

Jose Guerrero:
So basically, and I think Mario shares the idea. Like we have a dream and that's, that's our, our motto, this, this is our power to go and tell the world. Okay, here we are. And this is our dream. And of course, we always have more chairs on the table to have dinner together with several agents that can join us on the same dream. You know, like also we are always very insistent that from fine dining approach can come a very interesting designs for products that impact the supermarket.

Jose Guerrero:
You know, because this is the, if you want to make a revolution, you have to access to the 98% of the population. The 2% of the population is going to fine dining. So if you want to make a revolution, maybe you have to go bigger. So if you, if you want to go bigger is the supermarket is the, is the, is the stores. Original stores where, where you take your son and say, okay, go ahead, choose whatever you want. Can you choose whatever you want? Maybe no.

Nicole Astra:
I do have three boys and they would make different choices than their mama would. Let me just say that, but that's just it guys. It, it is all connected. And you certainly need people to make this dream come true. But Tongue Plant Protein, we talked to a lot of dreamers guys and everything that has happened in the last five, 10 years, it really did start in this place, right?

Nicole Astra:
It started with people who were practical and who were passionate and other people get on board through telling their story. And that's why we do this. You have a great platform through Future Food Tech. Some of your materials are up on their website now, but we are going to get to see your science in action when Future Food Tech heads to New York. So I look very forward to that and to our audience, there is still time to get on board with these two ahead of New York. So look them up, reach out, join the revolution. Thanks for joining us guys.

Mario Ubiali:
Thank you so much, Nicole.

Jose Guerrero:
Thank you very much...