Nicole Astra: Welcome to Talking Plant Protein. I'm Nicole Astra. And joining me today is the founder and CEO of FlavorWiki, Daniel Protz. Welcome so much.

Daniel Protz: Thanks. Great to be here.

Nicole Astra: So you are going to be a panelist for Food Ingredients Europe coming up this month and what can we expect from that discussion?

Daniel Protz: So that's a pretty interesting panel that the FI team has put together, which is essentially focused on changing consumer, not just habits, but consumer desires and consumer interests around the topic of plant-based protein mostly, but just in general the trends around moving away from meat.

Daniel Protz: And they've got some really interesting data on the, shall we say, the adoption curve of these types of products over the past couple of years, which I was even surprised to see how many people are open to in trying these products. So we're just trying to dig into different aspects of that and what's changing in the consumer space.

Nicole Astra: So you see all of the data. Like you said, this industry is changing so quickly. How is the sensory experience changing along with the landscape?

Daniel Protz: So I think that first of all, I mean, it's great to have the category have more attention, but when with any innovation when you have attention, you start to have expectation. The first adopters are quite forgiving of these different products.

Daniel Protz: So what we're seeing is that, and we talk a little bit about this, or we'll talk a bit about this in the panel is that, consumers that have been in this category for a while are starting to expect that it starts to mature, right? So if you tried the product for the first time maybe a couple of years ago when Beyond Meat was not really well known, it wasn't public yet... I think Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods are sort of the leaders of the dialogue there.

Nicole Astra: Definitely.

Daniel Protz: Consumers that have been trying these different items are starting to expect more out of the brand. They're trying different brands. There's a lot new brands out there. There's many more products, so it's a product category that has a lot of options in it now. And I think that, that's going to start consolidating. And part of that consolidation is going to be related to the products that people most like, right?

Daniel Protz: And we can talk about what liking means in this category, because it's not the same thing to all people. I think some companies, even companies we deal with that are younger, they think like, "Well, of course, if we can just like, make it taste like real meat, then everything is great," but that's not really about that. Because first of all, they don't taste exactly like real meat. It's a great substitute in some applications, but it's really more about the journey of how the products are improving and the consumer's interest in why they're consuming less meat.

Daniel Protz: It's all about less meat. This is an environmental and health related trend really. And consumers are looking for alternatives, but of course, they want to have an alternative, which they enjoy. Right? I would say that the expectation is now high, right? You have mainstream, and now when you're in the spotlight and so how these brands behave in the next couple of years, I think will define a lot about the success of the category, right?

Nicole Astra: And what does FlavorWiki add to that conversation?

Daniel Protz: So there's two ways in which we are finding that our services are engaged around this topic. The one is in helping companies, typically suppliers. And when you talk about suppliers, we're talking about flavor companies, ingredient companies, texturizing companies, companies that are selling inputs to the brands that are making the product, right? We see those folks engaging us around ways in which we can help them understand the general drivers of preference in the category, meaning what are key texture items amongst the winning products and what should we do and we're going to build those solutions, right?

Daniel Protz: So if you think about it, the way that food products are built, it's interesting. The brand has an issue. They're like, "Okay, I have an issue. I have a pain. I have a problem with my formulation that is causing me to be less successful in the marketplace than I would otherwise like to be. How do I solve that problem?" That becomes a technological problem.

Daniel Protz: It's a little bit like sugar reduction. People want less sugar. I mean, this is something that's happened a couple of years ago now. How do we replace sugar with something which gives the same texture, melt, feel, et cetera, but still is sweet, right? So that same problem set is being brought to many of these suppliers by the brand companies that are building the product. And so the suppliers are oftentimes looked for as a source of innovation, because they're producing the ingredients that make the product work. So we see the suppliers coming to us to try to figure out what are the drivers of preference in the category, so they can match their solution sets to those conversations.

Daniel Protz: The other way is the, just in simply understanding where does our product stack up to this very quickly evolving landscape, right? So it's not a mature category like cookies or colas or something like this where it's a pretty stagnant, yes, there's new product releases that happen in it from time to time, but you have a situation now where in a given month you've got three or four different products or different brands launching in a category in a given country. And all of them are expanding across the, shall we say, the portfolio. It's not just chicken and beef. That they're doing chorizo, they're doing sausage, they're doing this. And so obviously, all of those products face a competitive landscape in the shelf.

Daniel Protz: So customers are coming to us to figure out where they sit and how they can improve. That's the kind of data we can get them quickly. But then a lot of times, they're also using the data to try to convince the buyers in the retail space to carry their product, right, because you got, you can make a product, but you have to get it on the shelf for people to buy it. And so that journey of convincing the grocery buyer, data can go a long way to helping that happen too.

Daniel Protz: But in this category, it really starts with the suppliers because most of the technological innovation is either coming out of the supplier's space or it's a collaboration between suppliers and the brand companies. Right?

Nicole Astra: So preference has got to be nearly impossible to put your finger on. Again, that's why this data is so important. So my last question is maybe too broad. Are you finding that people, they just always like what they've always liked, or are consumers ready for new flavors?

Daniel Protz: I mean, it depends upon what you talk about with flavors. I mean, flavor can mean marinades and things like this. What we see happening in the plant-based space is that people now are considering the product or evaluating the product based on what it is.

Nicole Astra: The ingredients.

Daniel Protz: They're not saying, "Oh, this has got to be just like meat, right?" They're saying, "Actually, no, this, it's a good food," right? "It's a good food. It's a protein source. I need a protein source." It has a lot of the same features. It works in a burrito. It works in a taco. It works in a marinade. Maybe it doesn't exactly work as a steak, at least up to their liking, but they're basically finding spaces in their overall grocery basket where these plant-based products can sit. And many of them of course, are not eliminating meat altogether. There is some cases where they still want to have meat.

Daniel Protz: So I think that's probably also the best strategic way in which to get people to think about this is to say, "Look, you should eat less meat, and plant-based is one of those solutions, but it's not a solution for every situation." Right? So I guess in that regard, yeah, they're willing to try new flavors because these aren't exactly like meat, but they're darn close and they have a way in which you can cook, incorporate them into your cooking that works, particularly food service and in the kitchen. That's where I think that they can find a lot of uses. Right?

Nicole Astra: Well, Daniel, we appreciate your time on Talking Plant Protein. Let our audience know when you will be having the discussion.

Daniel Protz: So I think it's November 22nd.

Nicole Astra: Okay.

Daniel Protz: You might have to correct me on that.

Nicole Astra: Yeah, it sounds right.

Daniel Protz: Yeah. And then the actual show for FI Europe, fingers crossed, will still happen in person in Frankfurt at the end of the month. I'm hoping to go. It'll be my first live presence at a trade show in a long time. But again, fingers crossed that the health situation remains what it is.

Nicole Astra: Absolutely. Well, best of luck and we will be tuning in. Thanks again.

Daniel Protz: Thanks. Thanks for having me.